Das Eismeer (The Sea of Ice), 1823–1824, a painting by Caspar David Friedrich
The painting above depicts a fate that Walden fears but is willing to face, risking his crew's lives in order to fulfill his all-consuming pursuit of fame's immortality.
After having read these initial letters from the ship's captain to his sister, select a single passage (this may be a single paragraph or several) that you feel best typifies the sublime, then, based on that passage, answer the following questions:
1. In what way does the following image and the passage you selected demonstrate the sublime, specifically as it relates to the setting in Frankenstein?
2. In what way do we see the sublime within "Rime of the Ancient Mariner"? Use textual evidence to support your idea.
3. In both texts, how is nature characterized, and what do the texts suggest A) is man's relationship with nature, and B) about man's relationship with nature SHOULD be?
DUE: FRIDAY
Then, respond to ONE other student, extending and ADDING to the conversation.
DUE: Monday
1. The passage I choose is a description of the picture. My passage describes when the ship was surrounded on all sides by ice and barely had any room to move. The passage also states that there was dense fog and their situation was somewhat dangerous. These both demonstrate the sublime because being surrounded by ice can be a beautiful and an awe moment but there is a sense of danger that the boat can barely move and could crash.
ReplyDelete2. We see the sublime in “Rime of the Ancient Mariner” when the ship is drawn by a storm toward the South Pole. The passage specifically says, “ Now there came both mist and snow, and it grew wondrous cold”. This is sublime because the cold is described as wondrous and enchanting but there is a danger because the ship is now being drawn by a storm and the future is unknown.
3. In both texts, nature is characterized as wondrous and beautiful but is always associated with danger and the unknown. The text suggests that a man’s relationship with nature is intriguing, exciting, and beautiful but in nature, there is a danger behind all beautiful things. A man’s relationship with nature should be this way because nature cannot be tamed, but can also be admired.
I really like how you tied in the motif of unknown into your responses because that I think is very prominent in Frankenstein. This is especially seen in Walton's letters to his sister because he keeps telling her he doesn't know what's going to happen or even if he is going to make it back to her alive. But also, there is a beauty in the unknown because one can let life take its course and lead them on the journey they were meant to experience.
Delete1. The passage that I chose is when Walden's ship is completely surrounded by ice and a very thick fog. This is similar to the image and the thick sheets of ice that are broken. These both demonstrate the sublime because being surrounded by ice can be seen as gorgeous, yet it was described as dangerous and created a dense atmosphere. Similarly, the painting shows the danger of ice yet the beauty that it holds in both it's color and texture.
ReplyDelete2. In "Rime of the Ancient Mariner", we see the sublime when the poet writes," The ice was here, the ice was there, the ice was all around: it crack'd and growl'd, it roar'd and howl'd, like noises in a swound!" The ice is explain to be all around, making it overwhelming and beautiful. However, it was also explained to growl and howel, making it seem dangerous.
3. And both texts, nature is characterized as magnificent and treacherous. The text suggests that man's relationship with nature can be both wonderful and dangerous, overall very unknown. A man's relationship with nature should be this way, because he should value the beauty that nature holds, however he should also be wary about the unknown.
I like that you pointed out the characteristics of the painting regarding its beautiful portrayal of a dangerous scene. I think this complex relationship between the physical and literal aspects of the painting embody the principles of Romanticism, as such a terrifying situation can also feature beautiful and positive attributes.
DeleteI do agree that man's relationship with nature can be both wonderful and treacherous. You can see that in the way that some of the beautiful aspects of nature, such as the ice, can be the most dangerous. It does show that there is somewhat beauty in the unknown.
DeleteThe "Sea of Ice" epitomizes the sublime because it features a vast and daunting landscape of jagged ice fragments and natural formations, and demonstrates nature’s dominance over humanity with the abandoned shipwreck on the right-hand sighting of the painting. In the text, Walton’s description of his icy landscape denotes his appreciation for the marvels of such a barren yet magnificent environment. Both of these works embody the Romantic ideal of the sublime and relate to theme of idealized perfection in "Frankenstein." Victor Frankenstein chased the ideal of perfection in his attempted fabrication of a living, breathing man, and Walton sought the perfect outcome of discovering the North Pole on his voyage.
ReplyDeleteThe sublime is evident within “Rime of the Ancient Mariner” in lines 173-176, where the speaker states, “Almost upon the western wave/Rested the broad, bright Sun/When that strange shape drove suddenly betwixt us and the Sun.” The speaker’s description of a wave as “strange” can be interpreted as something unnatural and grand, and the fact that the wave was tall enough so that it appeared to support the sun adds to the speaker’s awe of their environment. Therefore, the sublime is represented in the speaker’s description of the grandeur of nature’s oddities and dominance over humanity.
Nature is characterized in both texts as the dominant entity in the relationship between itself and man. Walton’s frequent disclaimer that he may not return from his ambitious seafaring voyage demonstrates his appreciation for nature’s powerful capabilities. The mariner recounts his interactions with nature and characterizes it as both dangerous and awe-inspiring. Based on these observations, man should respect nature and not interfere too heavily with its natural processes.
I really like how you pointed out that the jagged ice fragments can demonstrate nature's dominance over humanity. I also think that it is interesting that you explain Walton's disclaimer as an appreciation for nature's powerful capabilities because I saw it as more of an awknowledgement that fate is not in his hands but rather the hands of nature. Do you think that Walton is more apprehensive or calm about the fact that he may not return due to some twisted act of fate?
DeleteI like how you said man should focus on respecting nature and should not get too involved with the way of natures process. This furthermore can be seen as a theme of Frankenstein because it warns of the dangers of what will happen if man interferes with nature or creating life.
Delete1. The passage from the letters is when Walton’s ship is surrounded by ice and thick fog. This demonstrates the sublime because the ice is described as “vast and irregular” but is also extremely dangerous for all the men onboard. This scene and the painting are similar because both depict a scene of awe, yet danger at the same time. Witnessing these unique and beautiful ice formations is awesome, but also can incite fear because of the danger it also causes.
ReplyDelete2. We see the sublime in “The Rime of the Ancient Mariner” when the storm pulls the ship toward the South. Coleridge writes “‘And now the Storm-blast came, and he/ Was tyrannous and strong:/ He struck with his o’ertaking wings,/ And chased us south along,” (l 41-4). Here, the storm is described as being so great and powerful that it actually puts the men in danger.
3. In both texts, nature is characterized as being lively and breathtaking, but also ominous and perilous. The texts suggest that man’s relationship with nature can be beautiful and daunting at the same time. The text suggests that man’s relationship with nature should be this way because there is no guarantee that anything in this life is easy or perfect, so nature is a reminder that this is okay.
I like the adjectives that you used to describe nature's characterization. It gives off a different feeling and perspective in thinking about how nature is seen.
DeleteI similarly like your original adjectives that describe nature. They offer a more direct description of how nature is characterized and they are more lively. I really like the line you chose from the poem because it is specifically talking about a storm and while the storm is tyrannous, it also has wings. Normally I see wings as delicate and tyranny as aggressive, so this juxtaposition really demonstrates the sublime.
Delete
ReplyDelete1. The passage that I chose is when the mist finally cleared away and Walton's ship is surrounded by vast and irregular plains of ice. This passage represents the picture because the passage describes the ice as unusual and big, just as it is depicted in the picture. Overall, this demonstrates the sublime by expressing that beauty can be found in a terrifying things. One would mostly be scared of the ice because of the its size and shape. But some may be intrigued by the ice, finding beauty in its unknown features.
2. The sublime can be found within "Rime of the Ancient Mariner" when stated, " And soon I heard a roaring wind: It did not come anaer; But with its sound it shook the sails, That were so thin and sere." This quote states that the narrator hears and sees strange sights in the sky. One may be frightened by this, not knowing what is happening. Others may find beauty in this. The sublime is profoundly based off of perception. What one finds beauty in and not. This text emphasizes this ideal.
3. Both of these texts characterize nature as beautiful, but they are skeptical about nature as well. They see danger in nature, worried that the unknown will harm them and their goals. These texts define man's relationship with nature to be untrustworthy. The people do not trust nature and the unknown factors that come along with it. These texts emphasize that man's relationship nature with nature should be calm. There may be uncertainty in nature, but overall it is beautiful. Beauty creates familiarity and calmness.
I agree that a very prominent example of a similarity between the image and Frankenstein is the part about the ice pieces and the fog. I think it's interesting that you used the word calm for how man's relationship with nature should be. Thing it back to "sublime" I normally don't think of calm when think of the sublime, especially since you mention that they see danger in nature.
Delete1.) The image demonstrates sublime because ice normally has a beautiful quality because its majestic, leaving people in awe, but it's also scary because it's sharp and dangerous and can kill you. This relates to Frankenstein because Walton is trying to explore the undiscovered which is scary, like when he's trapped by the ice around him and surrounded by fog. This also leaves them in awe at the beautiful discoveries they can make. Furthermore, when Wilton first sees Frankenstein, he is surrounded by ice, like the one in the picture.
ReplyDelete2.) We see the sublime in "Rime if the Ancient Mariner" in lines 51-52 when the authors writes, "And now there came both mist and snow, And it grew wondrous cold: And ice, mast-high, came floating by." The ice is being described as wondrous, but being in something that cold is dangerous and can kill you.
3.) In the text, nature is characterized as sublime as it's beautiful in a daunting and dangerous way at the same time. The text suggests that our relationship with nature should be reverent as we should be appreciative of its beauty.
The passage I am writing about is also when Walton's ship is surrounded by a enormous amount of ice and fog. This scene demonstrates the sublime because there is an "awe" factor in the description, however the vast amounts of fog and ice surrounding the ship is daunting.
ReplyDelete"The Rime of the Ancient Mariner" demonstrates the concept a sublime is the lines that state, "The ice was all between/ the ice was here, the ice was there/ the ice was all around! It cracked and growled, and roared and howled". This demonstrates the sublime because the speaker is exclaiming while simultaneously characterizing this ice as a monster because it "howled".
The texts characterize nature as a treacherous, yet glorious. Nature is seen as a formidable thing through the characters' perspectives. This means the texts are saying that man is afraid of nature. They suggest that man should have a relationship with nature in that they admire it and immerse in it so as not to be frightened.
I think it's interesting that you say the ice is characterized as a monster. This makes sense as to why the ice is a source of fear. I also wonder if the sounds are scary because they are unknown, unidentified. Humans seem to be either curious, scared, or both of what they don't know. The same way people aren't really scared of the dark; they're scared of what they don't know, which is what might be lurking in the dark. They're scared because they don't know what to expect. The unknown means a lack of a sense of security.
DeletePersonifying the ice intensified how scary the ice aeound them really is. I can just imagine the growls and howls while the place that surrounds me is quiet and isolated. Even though, the Mariner keeps going and that just puts the saying “Curiosity killed the cat,” on a whole other level :O
DeleteThe passage I have chosen regarding the sublime is in Letter IV, when the ship was surrounded by ice and the thick fog. This is actually the same scene depicted by the painting. The sublime is demonstrated through the two emotions the setting evokes: awe and fear. Awe, in that the ice goes on to no end and its irregular shapes are a subject of curiosity. The vastness and beauty of the ice brought wonder. However, the ice also signified danger. Walton says himself, “our situation was somewhat dangerous.” One wrong move and they would end up shipwrecked. The same setting that brought awe and wonder is also dangerous and poses a threat to the crew’s safety, invoking fear.
ReplyDeleteThe sublime can be found within “The Rime of the Ancient Mariner” in lines 51-62 through the description of a storm. Similar to Letter IV in Frankenstein, the mariner is surrounded by ice. He describes the situation, “And it grew wondrous cold: And ice, mast-high, came floating by” and “The ice was here, the ice was there, The ice was all around.” The ice is completely surrounding the mariner and it is vast. He is in awe of the beauty of the ice because he describes it “As green as emerald” comparing the ice to an object of beauty and using “wondrous” to describe the temperature. Yet at the same time, in this vast wonder, there is a feeling of fear because “Nor shapes of men nor beasts we ken.” There is no one around; the mariner is isolated.
In both Frankenstein and “The Rime of the Ancient Mariner,” nature is associated with and characterized as being sublime. Nature is powerful through being a source of wonder and awe, but also because of its potential to harm and destroy. Part of the awe comes from humans’ not knowing completely what nature entails. In both circumstances I mentioned above, the sailors are out in unfamiliar situations filled with beauty and danger. Both texts suggest that man’s relationship with nature is filled with this unknown. Man never knows the full extent of nature, its possibilities, and its power. Consequently, man should admire nature and be respectful of nature at the same time. As seen in the poem, if you harm of disrespect nature, it will come back and avenge itself and unleash its powers.
I really like the point you make with the comparison between the storm and emerald because it truly demonstrates how beautiful the ice is but later on the mariner does realize how isolated they are.
DeleteI like how you said if you harm or disrespect nature, it will come back and avenge itself. I never personified nature as something that would directly seek revenge.
Delete1) The passage from the letters that I selected was when Walton's ship was in the center of a substantial amount of ice and fog. This is an example of the sublime because although the ice is beautiful and breathtaking, it is dangerous. In fact, when Walton is writing to Maggie he does express that although he loves and finds beauty in the winter, the terrible weather and conditions that winter brings is what makes his journey all the more dangerous and risky. This expresses the sublime because although nature is magnificent, it also has its risks.
ReplyDelete2) In the "Rime of the Ancient Mariner" an example of the sublime would be when thenpoem writes, "The ice was here, the ice was here, The ice was all around. It cracked and growled and roared and howled, Like noises in a s wound!" This is an example of the usblime because although the ice brings about an element of beauty it is also very dangerous. The author uses the word "growled" "roared" and "howled" to express how treacherous the ice actually is.
3) In both these texts nature is described majestic, but at the same time, unpredictable and hazardous. Based off of the texts, man's relationship with nature can be filled with awe in beauty, but also mystery and danger. The text suggests that man's relationship with nature should be a respectable one because although it can be dangerous, it still is beautiful, and therefore, man should appreciate it.
I like that you described nature as majestic. However, I find it interesting that you call nature unpredictable. It is my understanding that nature’s response is somewhat dependent on your relationship with it.
Delete“The Sea of Ice” demonstrates the sublime in the fourth letter in which Walton’s ship is enclosed by ice from all directions and after the mist goes away, the crew sees that the vast ice has no end. In both settings nature’s wonders are in place as the white ice all around can be striking but it causes fear knowing that the ship cannot move from its place and that there is no land near by.
ReplyDeleteIn lines 55-59 the mariner says “And through the drifts of the snowy clifts/ did send a dismal sheen:/ nor shapes of men nor beasts we ken-/ the ice was all between” suggesting that the ice around their ship although beautiful was also terrifying because there are no other living things nearby. In this situations, the mariner and other men aboard are isolated and very far from any signs of life.
Both settings take place at sea with ice showing that nature can be amazing but it threatens human life as it can separate man from other sources of life. This suggests that man sometimes just takes on nature without thinking all of the consequences through and sometimes cannot escape difficult natural disasters. Ultimately, man should take part and enjoy nature but should take precaution knowing how powerful nature is.
1. The description of their setting demonstrates sublime. Walton describes his surroundings as “vast and irregular plains of ice which seemed to have no end.” The image portrays this, too, considering that all we see are white sheets of ice everywhere - as if the water isn’t even there. It demonstrates sublime through the way the danger is hidden in its beauty. Along with the white sheets of ice, we see potential dangers suggested by overturned ships and sharp tips of the ice. Submarine is portrayed through this beautiful but dangerous sight.
ReplyDelete2. The sublime in the “Rime of the Ancient Mariner” can be see in the way the speaker is describing his voyage toward the South Pole. The poem states, “And now there came both mist and snow, / And it grew wonderful cold: / And ice, mast-high, came floating by, / As green as emerald.” This description has a sense of awe with the way it is described as “wonderful” and “mast-high.” Saying it is “green as emerald” seems to suggest that it is full of life, when in reality it is not. This is portrayed in the next stanza where it states that “Nor shapes of men nor beasts we ken- / The ice was all between.” Though the majestic shapes of ice sparked a sense of awe, a looming sense of danger and oblivion is still present.
3. Nature is characterized as something beautiful but unknown. It is separate but harmonized at the same time with human life. The chaos that the spirit brought after the Ancient Mariner killed the Albatross suggests that humans should not be intervening with the way of nature’s life. Though respecting nature’s boundaries is what humans do, they still violate it and often kill animals, go into land they do not know about, and claim is as theirs. This seems to be a parallel to the way humans treat the world today. We kill animals for selfish need. We settle untouched land and take its resources for ourselves. And lastly, we degrade these lands to the point that we just move onto the next one and repeat the process.
1. The sublime is a popular british romantic era writing tool used especially in nature to create a sense of awe but also fear of impending danger. The image evokes sublime because it is a very large and jagged chunk of ice set in nature. The viewer feels awe while looking at the image because it is an amazing feat of nature but also danger because of the possibility of the ship sinking because it hit the jagged ice. This relates to Frankenstein in one of Walton’s letters to Margaret in which he describes his crew narrowly escaping an area where his ship was surrounded by ice and while it was a moment of awe, the crew and him felt fearful for what may have happened.
ReplyDelete2. In “Rime of the Ancient Mariner” we see the use of sublime when the mariner is at sea and surrounded by a dangerous storm in lines 50-60. Similarly in Frankenstein letter 4 to Margaret, Walton suddenly realizes his ship is surrounded by ice. Both situations are dangerous but evoke awe due to the immense size and unfamiliarity of the nature around them.
3. Nature in both texts is characterized as strong, ominous, dangerous, and powerful. It is strong and dangerous because as in the picture attached, nature has the power to take down a ship. However it is also ominous or gives the viewer awe because it/nature is so unusual and it is an amazing and unique sight. Therefore man’s relationship with nature is very dominant/inferior, in which nature is dominant and powerful and man is very small and inferior to the power of nature.
I like how you mentioned the power dynamic between man and nature. Usually, man is superior to nature. In all actuality, however. nature reigns supreme because of its unpredictability and how it is a constant danger to human life.
DeleteI agree that nature can be dominant to man, not only because of its unpredictability, but also because of its intense power. Even today, natural disasters cause chaos and seem to be uncontrollable by man.
Delete1."I cannot describe to you my sensations on the near prospect of my undertaking. It is impossible to communicate to you a conception of the trembling sensation, half pleasurable and half fearful, with which I am preparing to depart. I am now going to unexplored regions, to the land of "mist and snow"" (Shelley, 10).
ReplyDeleteThe passage I chose consists of the sublime's exact definition- awe and terror. When Walton writes to Margaret in Letter II, he explains that his prospective voyage will be "half pleasurable and half fearful" (10). The landscape's immaculate beauty, and Walton's overall excitement towards the trip compose the awe and pleasurable factors of the voyage. The certainty of danger, the possibility of death, and the land's treacherous ""mist and snow"" (10) form the terrifying aspect of Walton's journey. His destination is a land of fog and icy snow. This description reflects the depicted image. The "unexplored region", untouched by man emanates a breathtaking view. However, the ice is extremely hazardous. One fatal mistake could mean the death of Walton, his crew, or both.
2.In "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner, the sublime can be seen in the Mariner's opinions about his surroundings just before some negative event takes place. For example, before the albatross is killed, the Mariner is both in awe of the poles and is frightened by them. "And now there came both mist and snow;/And it grew wondrous cold:/And ice, mast-high, came floating by,/ As green as emerald" (51-4). The land is beautiful, and poses an equally dangerous threat to the ship because it can sink it. This example is one of the most lucid demonstrations of the sublime.
3.Nature is characterized as being both gorgeous and precarious. It is a beauty to gaze upon, but can just as easily lead to a swift death. Man is to have a close relationship with nature. However, he must never be foolish enough to think that it cannot harm him at any given moment. Man should still have a close relationship with nature, and never tamper with it.
1. The passage that struck me as intriguing is when the heavy mist went away and revealed that Walton's ship was surrounded by many misshapen plains of ice. I feel that this passage shows the isolation and abandonment that is felt throughout the chapters because of the predicament the ship is in. The ship reflects the feelings of the characters: trapped, isolated, and frustrated. The image about shows a ship that was damages and trapped in the sharp ice that engulfed it. Overall, this demonstrates the sublime by demonstrating that if left unattended, feelings or despair and loneliness can consume and ultimately destroy you.
ReplyDelete2. The sublime is demonstrated within "Rime of the Ancient Mariner" when it stated, " And soon I heard a roaring wind: It did not come anaer; But with its sound it shook the sails, That were so thin and sere." This quote shows that the narrator’s ship is being confronted with powerful forces of nature. This can lead to his ship’s thin sails to rip or break, causing him to be stranded or helpless. Just like with feelings of fear or doubt, everything must me addressed or it will have consequences.
3. Both of these texts characterize nature as something to be afraid of and that can cause damage. They see danger in nature and understand the power it holds against them. These texts show that man's relationship with nature is one of fear and distrust. They fear nature because of its ability to easily destroy or cause chaos. The relationship man should have with nature is one of acceptance and understanding rather than of fear and avoidance.
1) The passage that I choose is when the mist clears up around Walton’s ship and it is surrounded by ice. The ice is, in a way beautiful, and awe inspiring. However, it also represents danger. If the the ice punctured the ship, it would sink. The image also represents the sublime. The image could represent Walton’s actual journey. He is on a mission, however he is scared of what could happen to him.
ReplyDelete2) The sublime is represented the Ancient Mariner when the mariner looks down at the snakes in the ocean. They are most definitely terrifying. However, there is a certain beauty to their exsistence that the mariner is finally able to recognize.
3) Nature is characterized as somewhat of an enforcer for man. When man tampers with nature, nature responds with no wind or hot son, Man should not tamper with nature. Nature is created by a God and therefore, when one harms nature, the are harming God’s creation. Man should respect nature and it’s exsistance.